07 April, 2007

The Forbidden Love: When A Muslim Girl Falls In Love With A Christian Guy
We grow up in conditions that we can’t change. Sometimes, we are not supposed to change them. We ask ourselves questions with lost answers. Actually we know the answer, but the truth hurts.

Last night my friend asked me why we, as Muslim girls, cant get married to non-Muslim guys. “Its not fair”, “why men cant do it while we cant”, “are we animals”, love doesn’t know boundaries & religions”, “had shi bishi3” ( its sucks in Arabic)..etc!

Her rants really shocked me not because of the subject itself but becoz I know she is going to another adventurous relationship that will lead to nothing but pain & suffering. I was like for God’s sake mish na2isna!

A male friend of her started expressing his love& that if things were different he would allow himself to fall in love with her! To him she is idealism that leads to perfection! “loved his expression by the way!” The guy is Christian, Lebanese but of Armenian descent.

“He sings brilliantly, his voice is awesome, I like the way he talks, walks, he is adventurous, romantic, all in all I LIKE HIM”!!!!

They have been friends since ages and she never ever expected him to confess his special feelings. But it sounds friendship by time might turn into love! She just likes him but I’m afraid she will start falling. I keep asking her WHY DO U ATTRACT THE WRONG GUYS!

Personally, I don’t mind getting married to a Shii’ or even Christian! But if you choose to have a babe, then what religion is he going to embrace? If both parents aren’t highly educated &open-minded, the kid will be confused, torn into two pieces & lost between two religions, Islam & Christianity. Bearing in mind that Islam doesn’t allow women to marry a non-Muslim person, the whole issue seems impossible. Sometimes we get lost in life’s complexities. She told me about her Sunni friend that has been in love with a Shii guy for about five years. Her parents keep refusing the guy! It’s the worst torture that could happen to someone. The disastrous part is that Women can’t get married without their father’s permission, or any one in his place, otherwise the whole marriage will not be recognized.

If the situation was different, I would tell that girl to go ahead and marry that guy or run away with him! My friend was like would you do so? I was like YES OF COURSE..! but the situation is not different anyways...

39 comments:

mohammad said...

This is sick , ppl shouldn’t think about religion when it comes to love , true love is greater than all religions , it’s as simple as that , and about their kid’s religions , well , if it was me , I’ll take them to mosques and churches , and no it’s not confusing , and when the kid grows up he can chose the religion he wants .

But before doing any of that , she should make sure it’s TRUE LOVE , maybe they should date for like 4-5 months and then she can decide

The Observer said...

This is sad and happens a lot in our society in Jordan as well. When my friends read this post they would defiatly love you.

One of my best friends had a 4 years relationship with a christian guy while she is a muslim, but unfortunatly they had to break it up because his mother threatened him that it either her or my friend!

Another friend of mine who just went out from a relationship with a muslim guy (this friend of mine is christian) has been sufferig for months now for what she perieved as her best relationship yet! She says that she always falls for muslim guys! Her parents would ever allowed it. She would never hurt them for this.

Recently my best friend, a muslim guy this time met a sweet christian girl, they both liked each other so much but they couldnt go on with their relationship because of the religion issue! He doesn't care about it but her parents seem to do.

When would we get over this? I have no idea!

Gardenia said...

Hiba..allow me to say this to Muhammad..

Who told you that the kids wont get confused…my friend has the same problem…her mom is c. And her father is m. it has been always difficult for her. She feels rejected from both communities…
She has serious problems because of that…

It is not important how do you "or me" think of that…what is going on in REAL life is what really matters.

Stained said...

I am facing this situation right now in life....
& I'm sure both our parents will not agree...& even if they do...what about the children...
lots of issue to sort...

Its difficult to deal with them & walking away is never an easy way out either....
I know love knows no rules nor boundaries..but one must be careful to take the relationship further...one needs to realise if he is ready to fight the world for that other person....Its not easy & I know I have a loong harsh way ahead...but I'll take it & try to fight for it...Coz I love her...but I also know that there is no surety that one day she will be mine....

Abd El Rahman said...

جاتلي الفكرة دي من فترة وفعلاً كاتب قصة فيها التعقيدة دي بس من اتنين مش من بلد واحدة ، معالجة الفكرة دي- بالطريقة الصحيحة- في رأيي - مستحيل تكون بعيد عن الأسس العقدية اللي الاجتهاد المعاصر مش هيعرف يزوغ منها مهما حصل

بس على فكرة ، رأيك الشخصي تبريره مش صح برضه لأن العقيدة لو موجودة عند الاتنين مهما كان مستوى تعليمهم او مستواهم الثقافي بتفرق في المستقبل ، لو الاتنين بيعتبروا الدين شيء ثانوي وقناعاتهم بدوره او تأثيره صفر فمش هتفرق معاهم

eshda3wa said...

love knows no boundaries?
wat if the boundary was edcation? would it matter then?
if u had a university degree and he barely made it out of middle school
what if the boundary was financial status?
would it matter then?
if he couldnt afford a desent living would u think twice about it?

i think the saying that love should know no boundaries is stupid, cz love dosent make everything ok
and sooner or later realitly will bite

so why down grade religion?
why is it that suddenly if people say ur not religiously compatible then its stupid or not wise, or too closed minded? shouldnt it be looked at as any social issue??

in the end the choice is urs, and whats between u n god is between u n god

what u wish to follow is up to you

but i hate it when people down play religion and its teachings

My answer Intermixed marriages

ArabLady said...

@ Mohamad,
4-5 month? Say 4-5 years! Especially that people know how to act well these days. Believe me no matter how long it takes the woman to study the man’s personality; she will find out that he is absolutely different from the man she married.
Mohamad it all depends on the environment & both parents..sometimes its healthy so the child will get exposed to two different religions
I was just wondering if u r the the same mohamad Anonymous #1



@ The Observer
i guess the problem is so common & more fatal in Lebanon! I’m so sorry to read bout such stories. But can’t we avoid falling in such “Mistakes”. I say mistakes coz IT IS considered as unforgifable mistake by BOTH religion & culture. Tell you first friend that she is not in need of a rabbit. If his mother will choose his partner, so he should stick to his already preset choices.

Fadi, yes we would never get over this. The ideal solution is to isolate communities based on their religion since they are already isolated based on social status!


@ Gardenia
Maybe our society is not ready yet for religion-mixed marriages. Maybe her parents have done much to prepare her or at least to raise a self-confident child!
But bear in mind that its not something absolute. As I mentioned to Mohammad it all depends on the environment…that doesn’t mean we should abide by lame rules & customize our lives to please others

ArabLady said...

@ stained
Hmmmm…first of all u r not alone….thousands of ppl in our countries have gone thro that and still living your experience…love is a mixture of nobal feelings but it should be rational & realistic at the same time…some managed to sort the problem out & lived happily …others failed mourning their lost love…etc
Its definitely a harsh experience… Some “waste” years & years living stormy hot love stories but if BOTH are not up to that responsibly & if BOTH are not AWARE of the consequences & if BOTH are not READY TO BEAR the results, then they definitely should step back & save each other’s time….weight your choices, vision ur life in the long term with the chosen path, and do what makes you happy


@ Abdel Ra7man
you said your “personal opinion”..and my personal opinion might be wrong, right, and I don’t claims to right in my thoughts…each has his own concepts & but at least I don’t enforce mine nor demean others
To be honest with u I didn’t get ur last point…
Anyways thanks for passing by….u r probably the first egyption to read or even comment on my blog

ArabLady said...

@ eshda3wa
walla nice thoughts ….Actually, i don’t know if u are asking me or her..i felt your were pouring ur blames on me or her but you really inspired me to write something about marriage & social class…
So THAnks….!

Personally, education shouldn’t be a big deal. I have seen highly educated men graduated from abroad but with shitty mentalities very typical with fanatical attitude towards women..they think in a weird way that takes us back la 3asr el jawary.
Listen
What matter are mentality, understanding, and mutual respect.
You cant buy them with a piece of paper nor with ur credit card
Saw in dubai a woman,an engineer, who got married to a barber without even a high school degree
Guess wut
They are happy 
I know sometimes we have ideal concepts that don’t work out in certain circumstances
About degrading the religion, its up to the person’s choices ,,as long he/she is aware of his/her actions & their consequences then he/she will be held accountable for that…

@ Qwaider
Nawal Al sadwai always says Marriage Kills love& I really agree 10000% with her… I just see desperate married ppl wherever I go killed by routine & the daily life issues….

At any rate, interesting ya Mr. Qwaider to know that u believe it’s not worth it since love will run away sooner or later

The Observer said...

Arablady, my first friend is over him now. She realized that he is a rabbit long time ago and moved on with a nice guy :)

I don't think isolating communities would work at this point of time. My recommeded solution would be teach our children more tolerance and give higher values to personal freedom of choice :)

life is hard enough , y make it harder with such challenges ?? love doesnt last for ever , but common ground does ... and when u sacrifice that only little remains ... and u only make it harder or urself ... and as shuda3wa said if it was abt educational backgroun everyone will understang

but inspite of what i said ... i respect any individual's desire to do what he/she likes ... even if it was as tiresome as Inter-marriage

johnorford said...

Firstly, children of intermixed marriages can choose their religion, that to me sounds much better than having a religion hoisted upon you!

Secondly, why on earth do people have to be either Muslim or Christian???????? Seems to me that you can be a perfectly good Christian /and/ Muslim, they are not mutually exclusive!

Many of my Indonesian pals have parents from different faiths and they get on perfectly fine. If parents / societies can't deal with that then it's parents / societies problem, not the couple's.

The whole thing just seem so juvenile, love is more precious than what religion your parents happen to give you at childhood - it's meaningless.

mohammad said...

@ gardenia :
Well , it depends on the way they raise their child , they can talk to him about religions in general when he’s old enough to understand , ppl should get over this , the kid will probably be a little confused but as he grow older he’ll understand, and then he’ll be old enough to chose . I was raised in a house where we never talked about religion , I don’t even remember anyone talking to me about anything , but as I grew older I started searching for the right religion . and I turned out fine :D

And about “what’s going on in real life” , it just doesn’t make sense to me , ppl should marry who they love , they shouldn’t have to think about religion or social status or anything else , and just because ppl in Jordan think this way it doesn’t mean that we have to agree with them , if ppl talk about this more then maybe we can change the way ppl look at intermixed marriages

@ arab lady : yes it’s me :D

eshda3wa said...

actually it was a general question not directed at anyone :)
sure there are exceptions to the rule, but generally i personally think the more compatible u r the easier it would make things
less controversy

ive seen many intermixed marrages, almost all muslim men marrying a christian woman, the most successful ones are the ppl who agreed from the begining that there will be one dominant religion.
In other situations the kids did grow up confused.
And about shee3a/sinna marrages, in kuwait it happenes alot and almost everyone i know is happy. But thats different cz its the same religion with a few minor differances that can be overlooked

Fadfadation said...

The christian guy can embraces islam and they can get married, problem solved.

Anonymous said...

There's a muslim blogger woman who wrote about her inter-mixed problems.

diasporicdiscontents.blogspot.com

She talks about thte issues and her opinions. It's interesting. I don't agree with all she says but at least she uses her brain.

Summer said...

very interesting topic and much more interesting comments!

localexpat said...

HEY ARABLADY!

You are starting out smart me when it comes to controversial topics.. I LOVE IT! ;-) bring it on girl

There is a whole lot of issues regarding islam that need to be discussed.
BUT one thing i have learnt from my experiences is that no Muslim is ever ready or willing to TRULY discuss these issues in an OBJECTIVE, INTELLECTUAL, MATURE and EDUCATIONAL manner.
You keep digging and digging and eventually they take it personally and resort to insults.
AND SO regarding this topic....
NO COMMENT
( cause i know even cyberspace cannot handle my views)

Sand Land Dad said...

My partner in all my adventures is a very wonderful lady. I only report what I see, not my opinion (yet). Al Wafi is fun but the region is very male dominated. I am glad my daughter was raised in Europe.

Sand Land Dad said...

My partner in all my adventures here is a wonderful ladt. We enjoy all our experiences, like Al Wafi, but without commentary (yet).
True that the society is not balanced, and I am glad that my daughter was raised in Europe. But this is what we have ...

Any way you cut it, it is actually HARAM for a non muslim girl to mary a non muslim guy.

The other way around is not HARAM... but with all the problems I've seen come out of it (I am such a product, my mother was Catholic, my exwife was Christian) trust me, not the best idea. as you said in the post, what of tha babies? its not just that, being BF GF is one thing, being husband and wife is a whole different ball game.

Oh, and to rectify something you said in a different post. (technically) in this culture, GUYS also are not allowed to date, or have sex before marriage. It just so happens that there are very few muslim men left in the UAE. sigh.

Nice posts!

uae alias said...

I believe romantic love is just a stage in a relationship that is to be replaced gradually by other feelings like comfort, support and different kind of love (3eshra)... so to be smart, pick someone who have a smiliar background as yours including religion so as days goes you will have lots of what brings you together not what sets you apart... so regardless of whatever a smart relationship is one with a future... so unless she is going to be a christian herself, tell her to forget about him, this relationship isn't worth the pain she will put herself into, coz its future is so challenging and risky.

e-nadaha said...

nop :)
Gado isn't the first egyptian to read or visit your blog..
have been doing that for months now :)

It happens LADY..some fail and some live but it has a price..everything against the tide have a price..

And when the couple do that to stay together and belive their kids will be ok they keep worrying and the truth is..no matter how educated or openminded they are..humans tend to get stiff when put in comparison..
ya3ni..ya tara ay deen asa7 lelwelad..elragel 7aymeel le deeno oo el set 7atmeel ledenha tabee3i gedan..kids will be confused not about faith cause 99% will pick one for the devotion or expell both!!
it'll be the social confusion..living among people who'd always point a finger..

An important question though..if a couple don't care about their religious restirictions and want to be together..why marry?!!!

Sever said...

Hello :)

I can say that this topic was discussed in our comunity (I mean Russians, special forum).

There is not any problem, but kids.

But then men must not be allowed to marry Christian women also.

Aha, I know how they think.
They think - man decides everything, & kid will have the religion of his father.

Sorry, but we have such Christian mothers which can make a kid Christian also.

But then... then there will be a war in a family.
& no happiness.

I can have to face such a problem.

The most part of Chrisitan women think that kids must be Muslims as fathers. But I can explain why - they are not so religious, so if a kid will be Chrisitan, then he will not be a true Christian, just a name.

I tried another idea... boys are Muslims, girls are Christians. But it's crazy, too!

My favourite idea: to let kid to grow up & then to choose (he will choose). But in Arab countries - no way! Kid MUST have religion. Right?

Sorry, if I'm out some of topic.
But I think that marriage of people of different confessions/religions always goes to this problems - religion of kids.
Between parents everything can be ok till there is no kids.

P.S. thank you for visiting me :) I'm thinking to come back. I did not know that some people can ask for this. But I'm still out of it some.

rosh said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
rosh said...

AL - is there an email id to email you?

rosh said...

This a sensitive topic - I've shared similar thoughts on the above, including the lack of integration in the UAE, even though, supposedly we live in a multi-cultural environment. Below is a link to my post

http://blog-uaeian.blogspot.com/2007/04/stares-glares_05.html

True love knows no boundaries, it's called blind in a positive aspect - I think society in general is blind - in the true sense of being blind.

It's sad really - religion is supposed to be about love & care for another being - instead it seems everything but that? Hopefully things shall change for a better tomorrow.

Lovely post - loved reading it, please keep 'em coming :)

I reckon the predicament facing muslim women today in want of better words, sucks.

Muslim men can marry jewish or christian women, and this is often justified saying that the kids get their religion from their father and should a muslim woman marry a non muslim man, the kids may not be muslim.

That explanation is not good enough. What we see today (and I am witnessing a lot of muslim men marrying non muslims here in sweden), the marriage usually ends up with a man divorcing her and looking for a woman from "back home" wherever it is, to raise the kids with muslim values.

For me I would not marry a non muslim man for the simple reason that I wanna raise my kids a certain way and I would like to share in my religion with him. Fast together, pray together, do the pilgrimage together etc.

But to be honest, I would not blame a muslim woman for doing it. I will not claim that she has support in religion to marry a non muslim man however I would not think less of her for it. Things are not black and white these days.

this is a really fascinating post! i'm christian, and i could never imagine raising a child between 2 religions. the apostle paul said to be equally yoked with your mate--that you need to be on the same page when it comes to religion, because that makes a happy marriage. but you're totally right. true love is a gift from God, and sure it'd be hard, but if it's meant to be, they'd be able to work through their differences. kudos a whole bunch on the post!

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Asad Ramallah said...

Hello arablady,
It is my very first visit in your blog. Your posts are very interesting, and they really made me think different in some issues,
Hope you'll also visit my blog, it tells about my life in the occupied land of ramallah, I will be glad if you'll read it!

May we all have a nice day,
Asad al nimr,
Ramallah.
http://almanarasquare.blogspot.com/

ArabLady said...

To every Body
Thanks for your comments & contribution to the topic….happy to hear every body’s opinion & personal experience..Im also glad to have ppl from Egypt, Russia & the west bank & many other places reading my ideas & thoughts..i’m also happy to have male readers !

@ rosh & Ozy
The e-mail address is mentioned in the profile page ..any ways it arablady_uae@yahoo.com

@ Iman
Got ur msg thanks

Sorry for not replying to each and every one to you guys..i’m somehow busy these days but will update very soon

Love u all

Cairogal said...

I'm in a bi-cultural marriage and my husband is Muslim while I am Christian. Because of my husband's family's cultural and religious expectations, we will raise our children as Muslims. I have no issues with this, as I believe a good child is a good child, be it Muslim, Christian, Jewish, Hindu...you name it. I do agree w/ Muhammad (first commenter) that it's not confusing. I think when people say it's "confusing" they really mean that the child won't be convinced entirely of one religion, receiving 'mixed signals'. Though I'm not a church-goer, I believe nothing but good can come from having exposure and knowledge of more than one's religion.

As for the topic of Muslim women not marrying non-Muslim men, it's not actually in the Quran. The Quran references not marrying non-believers, but Chrisians and Jews are not referred to as 'non-believers' anywhere in the Quran. There is a hadith referencing Muslim women being forbidden to marry non-Muslims, but I can't say I know the strength and validity of this particular hadith.

antiZionist said...

Like Karil Marx once said, "Religion is the opium of the masses".

catwalq said...

Please take what am about to say carefully:
1. One should be more concerned with spirituality than religion. All our problems would be solved if we did not allow religion to dictate how we led our lives but rather the choice to attain a higher state of spiritual consciousness

2. Christian vs Muslim. You will be surprised to find out that God does not care. He loves all of you regardless

3. I am always intrigued to find religious laws constantly in favour of the man. In my country (Nigeria) some people had the "bright" idea to introduce Sharia in the northern parts of the country because it is predominantly Islamic. Suddenly. a woman is sentenced to death for adultery/ fornication. She is poor uneducated and looks worse than my eighty year old grandmother even though she is in her twenties.
What about the man that she supposed to have slept with? : Sleeping peacefully in her house whilst the country was thrown into uproar. She had been young and impregnated by this man. Her father had gone to the Sharia court seeking monetary justice and the courts had turned around and sentenced his daughter to death.

I was amazed that all through the time when this case went on (the order was never carried out as muslim female lawyers fought and won her appeal, the man was never brought forward and questioned. Who knows if in the beginning, she was raped and molested. She would be asked to pay right?

When a rich senator from the north was accused of having lied and commited perjury and disgrace to our country, he was let off with a warning and a fine so ridiculous, his servant could have paid it for him and not even blinked.

I need someone to give me an example of a religious law that affects men the same way as women. E.G how they should dress, marry, court, eat, look, smell, work, talk, go out, sit, sleep, pray, drive cars, sing, dance, conversate.....

I am waiting

Let's just all go ahead and admit it already, women want what they can't have :)

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